Changeset: 67630480
Landuse fixes in the Santa Cruz Mountains
Closed by stevea
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (14760 en) |
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source | SCCGIS Zoning v5 |
Discussion
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Comment from mueschel
Hi,
it looks like something went wrong with your latest edits, there are 26 areas with very strange tags:BASEDTL=One single-family dwelling, one second dwelling unit, home occupations, not more than 2 cats and 2 dogs, community facilities.
BASENM=Single-Family Residential
BASEZN=R-1
FULLZN=R-1-9
OBJECTID=2453
SHAPESTAre=865279.39453125
SHAPESTLen=7300.746439836606
Zoning=R-1-9
upload_version=5I'm also not able to find any information about the license of the source your giving here in the changeset.
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Comment from stevea
Your assumption is mistaken; there is nothing wrong with my latest edits. They are quite intentional and what you call "very strange" are explainable if/as you read our local wiki which has documented the entry of several versions of these polygons for almost ten years. There is a long and storied history of these polygons being introduced into OSM. Please read about it at https://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_County,_California#Landuse .
The "license" is that any data (GIS data included) produced by the state of California (as these are, since the County of Santa Cruz is a division of the state) are in the public domain. Numerous state Supreme Court decisions have expressly declared this to be true, making the data harmonious with OSM's ODbL. OSM mappers in California know this, now you do, too.
Wide agreement locally (around here in the OSM community) actually encourages entry of later versions (newer data which update and correct) of these landuse polygons, that is precisely what was done here. They are part of "official" (government-produced) landuse/zoning data and accurately map to what OSM's landuse definitions are (with values of residential, commercial/retail, industrial).
The SHAPE* tags give highly accurate area and length data, and other tags, some of which some do consider superfluous, are usually in a state of flux as the local community decides for any given upload_version which tags are appropriate to keep or discard during upload, as tags do change from version to version.
Were I to start editing in your home town in Germany, before I started doing so I would perform the courtesy of researching local wiki and seeing if there were any local conventions I should know about. Should I find them, I would not immediately assume that "something went wrong" with editing there, I would better understand that these are simply local conventions, documented in wiki and acknowledge by the local OSM community as "this is how we do things here."
By the way, many years ago, Santa Cruz won a Gold Star Award at bestofosm.org, one of only a few places in North America to receive such an accolade. The site notes that Santa Cruz has "nearly perfect landuse!"
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Comment from mueschel
I can't find any of the tags I mentioned on the Wiki page you linked or anywhere else in the OSM Wiki.
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Comment from mueschel
(excluding 'Zoning' and 'upload_version', they are mentioned)
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Comment from stevea
These tags on these polygons derive from tags on the government data. If you follow the instructions on the wiki page to access the data (where it says "scroll to Zoning") you can further scroll to "Attributes" where there are some clickable web buttons for each tag. (Some of these, like the SHAPE* data, appear to be broken, this appears to be a bug with the county's GIS web site).
I believe what you are saying (please correct me if I am wrong) is that "because I can't find a wiki page for these tags, they shouldn't be in OSM." As I say above, it is true that a discussion usually ensues about which tags from "official" data are or are not appropriate (some are useful, some are not) when a new version is released (as v5 recently was). However, you haven't made that case.
For the record, I'll say that I find it useful to know, for example in the polygon you quote above, that I find the BASEDTL tag a useful description of how the landuse is actually specifically designated (legally) in this case, the BASENM tag useful similarly, the BASEZN, FULLZN and Zoning tags useful abbreviations of zoning using a countywide standard protocol, the OBJECTID tag helpful for comparison of data between upload_versions, and (as mentioned before) SHAPESTAre and
SHAPESTLen useful geometric devices to accurately capture area and length data of the polygon.Does that explanation satisfy you? Would you prefer that this be in our wiki? (The reason I hesitated to do so before, is, as I have said, these tags do drift slightly between upload_versions, changing slightly as time goes by, and these data are now in their fifth incarnation as upload_version=5). I really am trying to do the right things here, avoid confusion, document fully and explain this when/where/as required.
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Comment from mueschel
If your community thinks these are important tags, it's fine to have them in the database.
Nonetheless, they should be documented.I only noticed them because they are new and were not used at all before your edit.
If such tags appear in a changeset, they are usually added by mistake - in my experience in at least 90% of the cases. That's why I wrote a comment. -
Comment from stevea
I can certainly update our local wiki to better document these tags and capture the spirit of this conversation. I agree that would help avoid future confusion. I appreciate that you DID write a comment (here)! Sometimes it takes changeset comments to spark the dialog, a good attitude by mature mappers, an explanation of (local) history, somebody reading a wiki page, somebody UPDATING a wiki page, and the positive intentions of "this is what's best for the map" to all blend together to have the best outcome. I think that's what happened here and I thank you for the good dialog.
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Comment from stevea
Now completed/documented in the wiki link noted above. Again, thank you, mueschel.
Ways (2)
Nodes (21-38 of 38)
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